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PostPosted: Mon Jan 02, 2012 6:59 pm 
Election Made Sure
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Joined: Tue Aug 05, 2008 4:28 am
Posts: 439
Location: Not a Mountain in Sight!
I don't come by very often nowadays, but I value the thoughts of the FLAK community.

On my blog http://www.moronchurch.com/main/2009/04 ... underwear/ I had someone a few days ago who seems to be a faithful LDS member started engaging me in conversation first about why I mock and ridicule LDS beliefs, but then today asked me about the role of faith.

Here is the last little bit of what I said (please tell me if you think I got this right):

Quote:
Faith should not be used to believe something that all reasonable evidence tells you is untrue. Faith in something that has no credibility whatsoever is not virtuous. If I had great faith and therefore believed in both Santa Claus and the Easter Bunny (who you cannot prove do not exist), you would not think my beliefs were worthy of veneration and respect. You would think my beliefs were just wrong, and possibly even harmful if my obsession was too strong.

There is no credible evidence to support the existence of Santa Claus, and much evidence and rational thought to suggest he is fictional, therefore you don’t believe, even though if Santa existed that would be really fantastic. Still, you can’t make yourself believe in him now (as you may have as a child).

Faith should be used to go the “extra mile” to believe something supportable and probable (i.e. my wife really does love me) not to support a belief in something the evidence utterly contradicts (i.e. the Book of Mormon is historically accurate; Santa is a real; etc.)

_________________
Flat Lander
Presiding Bishop
Moron Church of Latter-day Saints


Visit: http://www.moronchurch.com/main or
http://www.youtube.com/user/moronchurch


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PostPosted: Tue Jan 03, 2012 5:42 pm 
Election Made Sure
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Joined: Tue Feb 17, 2009 3:44 am
Posts: 158
Location: City of Brotherly Love
Flat Lander wrote:
Faith should be used to go the “extra mile” to believe something supportable and probable . . . not to support a belief in something the evidence utterly contradicts[.]


This is a more useful view of "faith," IMO, though it is not the type of faith practiced by probably about 98% of believers in the world. When I was on my way out of Mormonism, my former-bishop father kept plugging away (and still does, during moments when he is in reactivation mode) about how "faith" is all part of the plan, and about how the test of life is whether we will rely on "faith" rather than evidence. Well, "faith," as it is practiced by most, is nothing short of "the denial of observation so that belief can be preserved" (to steal a line from Tim Minchen)--and this can't be what any sort of respectable God intended or requires in my view (though I don't believe in any God, be it respectable or not).

Of course, this revised type of faith you are promoting means that one is ultimately stuck exercising "faith" in a "God of the Gaps," because our limited human observations are continuously filling in more and more of the picture. Right now God might have clapped its hands (or swirled its ethereal mists, depending on what you think God is like) to start the Big Bang, but it's not really necessary for much of the picture from that point on. I suppose our current observation doesn't rule out the possibility of a capricious God who works in a very haphazard manner--in that it just might allow rampant evil to go unchecked in certain parts of the world, yet it might help other people find car keys, and that it might just be unnaturally obsessed over whether homosexuals are given the legal right to a civil marriage--but strangly this isn't the type of God that most believers posit.


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