Further Light and Knowledge

In which a mormon man comes out about his homosexuality, and also talks about his wife and three children

My reaction to this is, good for them, but don't go trying to extrapolate this family's experience to everyone. Don't think that this will work for everyone. I suspect this guy has to be bisexual. After all, how does a man have sex unless he gets aroused? And I have doubts about the long-term viability of their situation.

Just thought this forum would find this fodder for discussion.

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"It is inaccurate to say that I hate everything. I am strongly in favor of common sense, common honesty, and common decency. This makes me forever ineligible for public office."

- H. L. Mencken

This was exactly my reaction as well. The reason I heard about this in the first place is because of all the TBMs on Facebook that want this to be an illustration of how the church's stance on homosexuality (you can be gay, just don't act gay) isn't really cruel. But now, any gay TBM that is trying to be faithful is going to have to deal with the added shame of not being able to live up to this exceptional situation.

I also found this to be a very, very dangerous example. And unfortunately, all my TBM Facebook friends have been talking about how wonderful this story is. One of my high school friends married an RM who turned out to be gay; the marriage ended in a very nasty divorce.

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A Post-Mormon Life: http://postmormongirl.blogspot.com

Far be it from me to pronounce whether or not another couple's marriage is doomed to failure. Marriage for centuries was not about love matches or satisfaction, so there's that.

But. With that said, I believe MOM should be actively discouraged in principle. There is too much at stake. It's unfair to everyone. Once two people are married, with kids, that may be a different story. I liked mohohawaii's take on it, to treat it like teen marriage, pregnancy.

Also, the personal and political ramifications of this story are fascinating to me. It's a complicated business.

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my blog

All my TBM friends are getting a boner about this on FB - reposting and reposting and reposting and sharing and sharing - to show how tolerant they are. "I have a black friend too" syndrome...

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“Someone must have been telling lies about Joseph K., for without having done anything wrong, he was arrested one fine morning.”

I had a similar thought when I first read about this. This relationship works because he's bi, not gay. I really felt like this had an almost PR feel to it. I don't believe that this actually is a PR stunt by the church, but it definitely was fueled by one (the BYU forum with openly gay students). The church has the same message about homosexuality as it always has, but it is just trying to rebrand its perception of it as being more progressive. Being gay is ultimately still a sin in the church. The only progress the church has made is simply acknowledging that gay people exist - they can say they are gay at BYU or at church now, but I'm sure that the message is still, "get married, pray, and the gay will go away" type of thing.

After reading the entire post and the overwhelming amount of supportive comments, with hardly any questioning comments (hmmmm), I must say this is without question the exception to the rule. I'm generally okay with people attaching whatever label to describe themselves as it really does not effect me in any way. Many people within TSCC consider themselves mormon when they clearly aren't living the tenants and principles that mormon theology espouses. This man however, IMHO, is really reaching when he defines the terms "gay or homosexual or same-sex attracted" as being interchangable. Now, I'm not a sociologist or qualified in any way to discuss the definitions pertaining to sexuality but when someone tells me they are gay or lesbian I take it to mean ,not only are they attracted to the same gender, but are interested in acting upon those attractions. This man has sexual intimacy and intercourse with his wife so to me 'gay' isn't a title that fits very well. I'm simply stating my generic reaction to how he describes himself so please don't beat me up to much.

I'm sure TSCC would love to have people believe they have somehow softened their stance towards LGBT individuals but let's be honest. This man has essentially killed any chance of him ever climbing the leadership ladder and I doubt the majority within TSCC view him as a 'good' mormon. That to me is more important and relevant to how the church actually perceives someone who dares walk outside of the one man, one women relationship. As an atheist I find it hard to believe any LGBT person could ever remain within christianity or mormonism especially. The bible is very explicit with it's hatred and violence towards gays and the church history is even worse. He only has to go back a few years to Elder Packer's comments about how 'impure' and 'unnatural' he his.

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Lead me not into tempation
I can find it myself

Agreed. Look at the number of comments. Over 1200 comments, including TBM's absolutely ecstatic about this. And nothing has changed about the church doctrine. Church doctrine remains resolute about this. They are now the perfect poster couple for m.o.m. What a load of bullshit.

Also, he says that he is having a healthy robust sex life with his wife. If that is the case, then I agree with Fig -- wouldn't that make him bi-sexual ? What the fuck ? Unless he thinks of himself as a woman in a man's body ? He cannot explain that at all. I dunno. Who the hell knows?

( Non-sequitur -- Also, never understood the need for TBM's to all have their photos taken sitting in a field, smiling beatifically. What is the big deal about assembling the family in a field. Millions of TBM family photo sitting in a field with beatific smiles. "We are SO happy, we just HAD to just go sit in a field." WHY is all Mormon photography SO cheesy. More bullshit). JMO

In sort of related news, an openly gay TBM man, Mitch Mayne, has been appointed to the bishopric in his San Francisco ward. Here is the interview with him.

http://mormonexpression.com/voices/2012 ... nal-faith/





I don't think this helps gay people at all. All it means is that a gay person upholds oppresive church doctrine. JMO.

I thought you had to be married to be called to be bishop? Maybe that was a made up rule in my local ward when I was still active?

Or sitting huddled together on abandoned (or possibly not abandoned) railroad tracks. Even more impressive if you can get a shot with a trestle in it. I don't get it either.

Or posing in the middle of the road . . . have you seen that? I've been sent numerous "maternity" poses where it's the mother lying down on a road. Really??

If I was a member of an organization that told me I couldn't marry, or have a relationship outside marriage involving sex, then I'd tell them to go to hell and leave immediately. End of story.

I seriously don't understand how anyone who is gay would want to continue being a member of the organization. I know this is "politically incorrect" but I honestly have zero respect for people who promote an organization knowing the organization prevents them from experiencing happiness while the organization continues to openly use deceitful practices in order to demand money from the duped and then use it for several unreasonable purposes.

I guess that makes me a "bad person" but at least I'm honest about my feelings.

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It's good to talk about these things and to sort out the messed up mindfuck we were in.
- SIMS

I hate this blog post. I am happy for him and his wife, if they are truly making it work. That is wonderful. The problem is as you guys have pointed out, there are so many TBM's having orgasms over this. A lot of my TBMs are the kind of people who have struggled with the cog dis from the church's stance on homosexuality, and this one damned post helped relieve all of that cog dis for them. That is why they are all getting boners over it. It allows them to finally see the church's stance in action and successfully, and that makes them feel much much better about continuing to be bigots.

Here is a great response:

http://cedarpocket.wordpress.com/2012/0 ... a-unicorn/

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I am Jack's Wasted Life.

Yes, I have, LOL ! Really, could some of those family photos get any cornier? Some of that stuff is really awful.



Very, very true, Floater. Absolutely agree with your thoughts on this issue.