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PostPosted: Wed Jul 25, 2012 4:17 am 
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Another thread got me wondering if the general membership had any sense that Monson may be headed towards senility. I asked my sister (active member) and she said 'no' - that there was no indication from last conference that anything was amiss other than he seemed older and tired. So I pulled up conference this evening to have a look myself. I would agree that as a member watching conference (or at least the Saturday morning session) there was nothing to suggest Monson's mental decline.

But this is where it got interesting. I was just about to shut it off when I noticed that Packer was the next speaker, so I wanted to see if he was his old grouchy self. As I listened to the opening, it struck me that I had hear this talk before... weird. I haven't listened to conference in what - 8 years now? So I did a quick google search, and sure enough, in April of 2002 Packer gave almost word for word the same first half of the talk. The second half varied a bit.

Not sure what to make of this. Is Packer running out of inspiration, or is he on lock-down from the other brethren? Maybe they pulled a past talk out for him and told him this is what he could speak about...


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 25, 2012 5:07 am 
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They all seem to recycle a lot of their material - same lame "faith-promoting" (and probably exaggerated) stories, same themes, same ponderous tone of voice. And I always blamed myself for being bored during GC...

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 25, 2012 6:04 am 
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Links would be nice.

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PostPosted: Wed Jul 25, 2012 1:00 pm 
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Hinckley was infamous for recycling material; he gave his screed about Governor Ford at least twice in GC and at least as many times at BYU devotionals and the Nauvoo Temple dedication.


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 25, 2012 5:59 pm 
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Here are the links:

April 2012 talk entitiled "And a little Child shal Lead Them"
http://www.lds.org/ensign/2012/05/and-a-little-child-shall-lead-them?lang=eng

April 2002 talk entitled "Children"
http://www.lds.org/ensign/2002/05/children?lang=eng


Here's one example:

2002 -
Quote:
Many years ago in Cuzco, high in the Andes Mountains of Peru, Elder A. Theodore Tuttle and I held a sacrament meeting in a long, narrow room with a door that opened onto the street. It was night and it was very cold. While Elder Tuttle spoke, a little boy, perhaps six years old, appeared in the doorway. He was naked except for a ragged shirt that went about to his knees. On our left was a small table with a plate of bread for the sacrament. This ragged street orphan saw the bread and inched slowly along the wall toward it. He was almost to the table when a woman on the aisle saw him. With a stern toss of her head, she banished him out into the night. I groaned within myself.

Later the boy returned. He crept along the wall, glancing from the bread to me. He was near the point where the woman would see him again. I held out my arms, and he came running to me. I held him on my lap. Then, as something symbolic, I set him in Elder Tuttle’s chair. After the closing prayer, much to my sorrow, he darted out into the night.

When I returned home, I told President Spencer W. Kimball about him. He was deeply moved and spoke of it in a conference talk. He told others of it and said to me more than once, “That experience has far greater meaning than you have yet come to know.”

<a bit later in the talk> Over the years, I have wondered what President Kimball meant when he reminded me of that street orphan in Cuzco and repeated, “That experience has far greater meaning than you have yet come to know.” One day he added, “You held a nation on your lap.”

I have never forgotten that little street orphan. Many times in South America I have looked for him in the faces of the people. When he comes back into my mind, others come with him.



2012 -
Quote:
Some years later in Cusco, a city high in the Andes of Peru, Elder A. Theodore Tuttle and I held a sacrament meeting in a long, narrow room that opened onto the street. It was night, and while Elder Tuttle spoke, a little boy, perhaps six years old, appeared in the doorway. He wore only a ragged shirt that went about to his knees. On our left was a small table with a plate of bread for the sacrament. This starving street orphan saw the bread and inched slowly along the wall toward it. He was almost to the table when a woman on the aisle saw him. With a stern toss of her head, she banished him out into the night. I groaned within myself.

Later the little boy returned. He slid along the wall, glancing from the bread to me. When he was near the point where the woman would see him again, I held out my arms, and he came running to me. I held him on my lap. Then, as something symbolic, I set him on Elder Tuttle’s chair. After the closing prayer the hungry little boy darted out into the night.

When I returned home, I told President Spencer W. Kimball about my experience. He was deeply moved and told me, “You were holding a nation on your lap.” He said to me more than once, “That experience has far greater meaning than you have yet come to know.”

As I have visited Latin American countries nearly 100 times, I have looked for that little boy in the faces of the people. Now I do know what President Kimball meant.


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 25, 2012 6:09 pm 
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One other thing: the reason I remembered and recognized the talk in the first place is probably sadder than the fact that the talk was recycled. My last years in the church were deeply marred by depression. Of course, being told that the church was everything and that the word of God (especially through his living prophets) would cure it, I recorded the conference talks and listened to them over and over while I was either exercising or cleaning the house.

Of course it didn't work. So of course it was because I wasn't doing it right, right? So of course the answer was to listen to them even more! I had those damn talks memorized.

It's like giving morphine to a drug addict to cure the addiction...


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PostPosted: Wed Jul 25, 2012 8:47 pm 
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justme wrote:
Here are the links:

April 2012 talk entitiled "And a little Child shal Lead Them"
http://www.lds.org/ensign/2012/05/and-a-little-child-shall-lead-them?lang=eng

April 2002 talk entitled "Children"
http://www.lds.org/ensign/2002/05/children?lang=eng


Thanks. You were right on, nice catch. One or two other anecdotes are also repeated, just in a different order.

What was the point of this story anyway? He didn't even feed the kid! Here, sit in this chair, that should help. And swk was deeply moved by this??

All that power and authority from God and all they can do is tell these bullshit little stories. You'd think after decades of being an apostle he'd have some better stories. Fucking glorified administrators is all these guys are.

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PostPosted: Thu Jul 26, 2012 5:14 am 

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Agreed...the child should have been handed some bread immediately, then someone should have taken off their white shirt and clothed the child. What an example that would have been. Feeding and clothing the lowest among us.
Instead the child got to sit in the important chair and pray.

Makes my heart sort of sick.


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PostPosted: Thu Jul 26, 2012 6:12 pm 
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NurseInBlack wrote:
Agreed...the child should have been handed some bread immediately, then someone should have taken off their white shirt and clothed the child. What an example that would have been. Feeding and clothing the lowest among us.
Instead the child got to sit in the important chair and pray.

Makes my heart sort of sick.


Totally agree.

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PostPosted: Fri Jul 27, 2012 4:06 am 
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Location: Canada and New Zealand
NurseInBlack wrote:
Agreed...the child should have been handed some bread immediately, then someone should have taken off their white shirt and clothed the child. What an example that would have been. Feeding and clothing the lowest among us.
Instead the child got to sit in the important chair and pray.

Makes my heart sort of sick.


Exactly. Not inspiring at all.


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PostPosted: Sat Jul 28, 2012 1:30 pm 
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mamato4 wrote:
Exactly. Not inspiring at all.


That's the point I was making with TBM spouse the other day. If a consistent pattern takes place during years of participation, involving a large group of close-thinking peers who partake of the same cup of water from the same well and you're being told the water will provide all the nutrients to sustain healthy life and heal anything that's broken or sick, and everyone around you agrees, then you will most likely also believe the water from the well has this same "miraculous" power.

In this case, the TBM listeners have made up their mind before they begin making preparations to attend/listen/view conference. These mind raped people believe with all their heart that anything that's presented at the dead tree will be inspired, thus their "spirit meter" is already measuring blips as shoes are laced or pearl necklace clasps are snapped in preparation to attending these meetings.

Either repeating the same message delivered several years ago or wiggling ears, if it happens during GC "true TBM's" will feel their spirit meters spiking. Everyone else is merely a puppet controlled by Stan Plus A.

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PostPosted: Sat Jul 28, 2012 7:24 pm 
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This story reminds of the one by D. Todd Christofferson "Let us be men" where he tells the story about the awful pain his mother was in- from IRONING, that he dad went without eating lunch for a year so he could save enough money to buy a machine- TO HELP HIS WIFE KEEP IRONING!!!! He couldn't do his own fucking ironing so she wouldn't call out it pain or anything. Instead he let her suffer for a year. And this is held up as an example of how to be a good man? :swearing:

They should have given the kid a good meal at the least or a little cash. That would have been a much better example of being a good person than just stopping some lady from sending him away. He still didn't get any good food out of it. What a bunch of asshats!

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PostPosted: Sat Jul 28, 2012 10:27 pm 
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Location: Canada and New Zealand
vballrh wrote:
This story reminds of the one by D. Todd Christofferson "Let us be men" where he tells the story about the awful pain his mother was in- from IRONING, that he dad went without eating lunch for a year so he could save enough money to buy a machine- TO HELP HIS WIFE KEEP IRONING!!!! He couldn't do his own fucking ironing so she wouldn't call out it pain or anything. Instead he let her suffer for a year. And this is held up as an example of how to be a good man? :swearing:

They should have given the kid a good meal at the least or a little cash. That would have been a much better example of being a good person than just stopping some lady from sending him away. He still didn't get any good food out of it. What a bunch of asshats!


Yep. Great way to sum it up.


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