Further Light and Knowledge

Last friday, I took my son to the ER due to a rapid heart rate. Turns out he has a spontaneous pneumothorax (collapsed lung), a tube was placed and he was admitted. During the admissions process, we were asked if we wanted the hospital to notify a chaplain, priest, or pastor, to which we quickly said no. Two days later we had two morgbots visit us. They (apparently) had a list of inpatients who claimed to be LDS and they knew our last name. 18 years ago when my son was hospitalized for pneumonia, we were LDS and didn't have an issue with it. Needless to say, we have an issue with it now. Is this a HIPAA violation? I say yes, but I also know that we didn't ask for the LDS identification to be taken off the admission record (didn't even think about it, they didn't ask).

What do you think?

I work in a hospital and my experience with admissions has been this. Once a religion has been filled out in the admission history, it automatically carries through on every admission. I have had people from various churches-those who have either changed religions or no longer proscribe to a particular one, and I have been unable to change the original religion from their first admission. You can change whether they want a pastoral visit or not. What I usually do is make a note in the comment section of the admission history about the inaccurate information.

So, here is what I say about it. Any time information is given out without your express permission it is a HIPPA violation. You said NO to a pastoral visit. I would raise hell about this. The hospital should have customer relations representatives. File a complaint. Then tell the nurse you have that these people are harassing you. You must be explicit or they will continue to allow them to come. Have a sign put up that all visitors must check in at the nurses station first-so that when the morgbots return they will go to the nurses station and they can tell them they are not allowed to visit.

If you give them an inch they will take a mile. Again, complain to the hospital-if you are loud enough they will take you seriously and make sure you aren't bothered by them again as well as hopefully spurring a change in their process so they can avoid future violations. You should have gotten a notice of privacy rights with your paperwork and there should be a number to call to report potential violations- they can investigate and maybe your case will make it better for others!

(On a side note, I am sending positive thoughts for your son's quick recovery!)

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"We shouldn't be mad at Chef for leaving us, We should be mad at that fruity little club for scrambling his brains"

I'll play the devils advocate and state that it was not a violation of HIPAA. HIPAA protects patient privacy and medical records. According to the Department of Health and Human Services, only detailed information about a patient is protected under HIPAA. Religious preference is not a piece of information that is protected under HIPAA. As I'm sure you're aware, hospitals tend to build directories of patients who are admitted that contain several pieces of information, one of them being religious preference. So while you may have said no to having the hospital send in a member of clergy, if the record for your son was not updated to state no religious preference, then it might still reflect that he is LDS. It stands to reason that if the morgbots looked at the hospital directory, they might have seen your son listed as LDS (or if they queried for all members of TSCC his name might have appeared) and assumed that he was still LDS.

For information on this, check out this link that explains exactly what is permitted in hospital directories and how much information can be released without violating HIPAA policies.

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"To those seaching for truth - not the truth of dogma and darkness but the truth brought by reason, search, examination, and inquiry, discipline is required. For faith, as well intentioned as it may be, must be built on facts, not fiction - faith in fiction is a damnable false hope." - Thomas Edison

I'm with JB on this. I think that it's not considered a HIPAA violation, although I didn't read the detailed guidelines on it.

I believe that many faiths routinely have a chaplin or other pastoral representative go through and check in on hospitalized patients. It's really kind of a throw-back to an earlier day and age when people were more religious generally, and the pastor was considered part of the care team. Nowadays, with the phone tree, SMS, Facebook, etc., it's probably most common for the patient's family and clergy to all know about the admission pretty quickly and show up INVITED. Gone are the days when the hospital needed to know which person to call for administering the last rites, so to speak.

I imagine that the LDS pastoral team will leave you alone once you've let them know that you're not interested. Then just have the hospital correct its patient database to reflect your son's status.

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Nèg fè, nèg defè. -- Haitian proverb

From the website:



At the hospital in which I work, we have a specific form-the HIPPA form in which people have to be specifically listed- by name and with phone number, in order for us to tell them what room a patient is located in and then an additional list if it is okay to update them on patient status. I would argue by saying no to a visit, and then having them show up-they are still in violation.

BUT, regardless of whether or not the legalities of HIPPA are violated or not, the mere implication of a violation is usually enough to make a hospital bend over backwards to meet your needs, because the fines for a violation are so large and the hospital should know that the court of public opinion is more damaging to them then even an actual violation would be. Usually they want to err on the side of caution, at least in my experience.

Also, depending on the size of the hospital, the chaplins who are there getting paid are most likely not denomination specific. If I am correct on the original interpretation I had, the people who visited were NOT hospital employees, but outside mormons "volunteering" to administer to the sick. I know in UT they have people on service missions for the specific purpose of visiting those in the hospital, but there is a much larger population there also.

It just really irks me that they can insert themselves where they were not asked or invited to come, and I feel the same way about all religions who prey on those in a compromised position while in the hospital.

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"We shouldn't be mad at Chef for leaving us, We should be mad at that fruity little club for scrambling his brains"

The worst thing about the whole episode is that I am sure their training concentrates more on "reactivation" than it does on ministering to the needy.

Some people will want the visits, others will not, which is why they ask the question at the start. That decision should be respected.

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Mankind is evil because God made man in his own image.