Further Light and Knowledge

FLAK Statistics, a graph of posts per day.
NEW! Archive of The View from the Foyer.
It is currently Sat May 25, 2013 8:22 am

All times are UTC [ DST ]




Forum locked This topic is locked, you cannot edit posts or make further replies.  [ 16 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next
Author Message
PostPosted: Fri Apr 24, 2009 3:37 am 
Election Made Sure
User avatar

Joined: Thu Jun 07, 2007 4:28 pm
Posts: 1744
Location: Minneapolis
Peggy Noonan typifies the hypocrisy on the right regarding justice, the rule of law and the role of investigations and/or punishment:

Quote:
"The Democrats had long labeled the impeachment debate a distraction from the urgent business of a great nation. But the Republicans argued that the pursuit of justice is the business of a great nation. In winning this point, they caught the falling flag, producing a triumph for the rule of law, a reassertion of the belief that no man is above it, and a rebuke for an arrogance that had grown imperial," - Peggy Noonan, December 21. 1998.


Quote:
"It’s hard for me to look at a great nation issuing these documents and sending them out to the world and thinking, ‘Oh, much good will come of that.’ Sometimes in life you want to keep walking… Some of life has to be mysterious." - Peggy Noonan, April 19, 2009.


There is no better example of fucking hypocrisy people. No better example.

Remember that waterboarding is torture and it is a crime - at leastit has been throughout our history:



Quote:
In the war crimes tribunals that followed Japan's defeat in World War II, the issue of waterboarding was sometimes raised. In 1947, the U.S. charged a Japanese officer, Yukio Asano, with war crimes for waterboarding a U.S. civilian. Asano was sentenced to 15 years of hard labor.

"All of these trials elicited compelling descriptions of water torture from its victims, and resulted in severe punishment for its perpetrators," writes Evan Wallach in the Columbia Journal of Transnational Law.

On Jan. 21, 1968, The Washington Post ran a front-page photo of a U.S. soldier supervising the waterboarding of a captured North Vietnamese soldier. The caption said the technique induced "a flooding sense of suffocation and drowning, meant to make him talk." The picture led to an Army investigation and, two months later, the court martial of the soldier.

Cases of waterboarding have occurred on U.S. soil, as well. In 1983, Texas Sheriff James Parker was charged, along with three of his deputies, for handcuffing prisoners to chairs, placing towels over their faces, and pouring water on the cloth until they gave what the officers considered to be confessions. The sheriff and his deputies were all convicted and sentenced to four years in prison.


If it's not a crime, why were these people tried, convicted and sentenced?

_________________
- CV Rick
-------------------------------------------------------


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Apr 24, 2009 4:19 am 
Election Made Sure
User avatar

Joined: Tue Oct 28, 2008 4:37 pm
Posts: 447
Location: pretty how town
CV Rick wrote:
Quote:
"The Democrats had long labeled the impeachment debate a distraction from the urgent business of a great nation. But the Republicans argued that the pursuit of justice is the business of a great nation. In winning this point, they caught the falling flag, producing a triumph for the rule of law, a reassertion of the belief that no man is above it, and a rebuke for an arrogance that had grown imperial," - Peggy Noonan, December 21. 1998.


Quote:
"It’s hard for me to look at a great nation issuing these documents and sending them out to the world and thinking, ‘Oh, much good will come of that.’ Sometimes in life you want to keep walking… Some of life has to be mysterious." - Peggy Noonan, April 19, 2009.


Links to the Noonan articles?

_________________
“I was never aware of any other option but to question everything.”
― Chomsky


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Apr 24, 2009 5:34 am 
Election Made Sure

Joined: Fri May 02, 2008 7:27 am
Posts: 1282
Quote:
There is no better example of fucking hypocrisy people. No better example.


Agreed -- especially in the case of Peggy Noonan, who really doesn't understand much about our present times. She supported the impeachment of Clinton, but was staunchly opposed to the Iran-Contra investigation, which yielded far more indictments and convictions than the White Water investigations.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Apr 24, 2009 5:45 am 
Election Made Sure
User avatar

Joined: Sat Dec 22, 2007 3:11 pm
Posts: 4340
Location: North America's wang
Bearded Infidel wrote:
Links to the Noonan articles?


http://www.opinionjournal.com/columnist ... d=95000430

_________________
Fear will keep the local systems in line.


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Apr 24, 2009 5:57 am 
Election Made Sure
User avatar

Joined: Tue Oct 28, 2008 4:37 pm
Posts: 447
Location: pretty how town
notpotable wrote:
Bearded Infidel wrote:
Links to the Noonan articles?


http://www.opinionjournal.com/columnist ... d=95000430

Really I was more interested in the recent article. I've read her latest and can't seem to find the quote that CV_Rick provides.

_________________
“I was never aware of any other option but to question everything.”
― Chomsky


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Apr 24, 2009 6:04 am 
Election Made Sure
User avatar

Joined: Sat Dec 22, 2007 3:11 pm
Posts: 4340
Location: North America's wang
Bearded Infidel wrote:
notpotable wrote:
Bearded Infidel wrote:
Links to the Noonan articles?


http://www.opinionjournal.com/columnist ... d=95000430

Really I was more interested in the recent article. I've read her latest and can't seem to find the quote that CV_Rick provides.


this one? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KVCULSpJK2o

_________________
Fear will keep the local systems in line.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Fri Apr 24, 2009 6:23 am 
Election Made Sure
User avatar

Joined: Wed Aug 23, 2006 9:18 pm
Posts: 757
CV Rick wrote:
Peggy Noonan typifies the hypocrisy on the right regarding justice, the rule of law and the role of investigations and/or punishment


It's pitiful how our government plays so much like a football game with the two teams saying and doing whatever to win... there is enough hypocrisy for both sides. :?

But the two party system is a natural growth out of our winner-take-all constitution. We need a new constitution that provides proportional representation in order to empower third parties.

That said, it is amazing how Ms. Noonan can advocate turning a blind-eye to all of this torture business (cuz you'd definitely still hear the screams of those being tortured.)

America tortures.

_________________
Let us read and let us dance: two amusements that will never do any harm to the world.
- Voltaire

I quickly laugh at everything, for fear of having to cry.
- Pierre de Beaumarchais


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Apr 24, 2009 6:27 am 
Election Made Sure
User avatar

Joined: Tue Oct 28, 2008 4:37 pm
Posts: 447
Location: pretty how town
notpotable wrote:
Bearded Infidel wrote:
notpotable wrote:
Bearded Infidel wrote:
Links to the Noonan articles?


http://www.opinionjournal.com/columnist ... d=95000430

Really I was more interested in the recent article. I've read her latest and can't seem to find the quote that CV_Rick provides.


this one? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KVCULSpJK2o

Thanks np, those are some ridiculous comments. I personally would love to see high ranking Bush officials prosecuted if it could be shown they broke the law. I'm not sure that what Rick presented demonstrates that, but if it could be shown there is US law that was violated, by all means prosecute them. I think it would set a good precedent, to show US presidents that if they break the law while in office, they could be prosecuted after their tenure.

What bugs me about the present situation is that only those who are no longer serving in government may be prosecuted, not those working at the CIA. I don't buy the 'just following orders' excuse. They are just a culpable as those who advised them to break the law.

_________________
“I was never aware of any other option but to question everything.”
― Chomsky


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Apr 24, 2009 1:39 pm 
Election Made Sure
User avatar

Joined: Thu Jun 07, 2007 4:28 pm
Posts: 1744
Location: Minneapolis
Bearded Infidel wrote:
Thanks np, those are some ridiculous comments. I personally would love to see high ranking Bush officials prosecuted if it could be shown they broke the law. I'm not sure that what Rick presented demonstrates that, but if it could be shown there is US law that was violated, by all means prosecute them. I think it would set a good precedent, to show US presidents that if they break the law while in office, they could be prosecuted after their tenure.


I don't believe I was presenting a prosecutorial case. I believe I was pointing out hypocrisy. I would like to see a special investigator assigned and then the violations be enumerated, investigated and if applicable tried in a court of law. If you think I was presenting specific evidence here in this post then you completely missed the point.

_________________
- CV Rick
-------------------------------------------------------


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Apr 24, 2009 6:42 pm 
Election Made Sure

Joined: Wed Sep 10, 2008 11:30 pm
Posts: 638
CV Rick wrote:
I believe I was pointing out hypocrisy. I would like to see a special investigator assigned and then the violations be enumerated, investigated and if applicable tried in a court of law.


Do you really think that the Gadianton Robbers will punish one of their own?


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Apr 24, 2009 9:58 pm 
Election Made Sure
User avatar

Joined: Thu Jun 07, 2007 4:28 pm
Posts: 1744
Location: Minneapolis
ff42 wrote:
CV Rick wrote:
I believe I was pointing out hypocrisy. I would like to see a special investigator assigned and then the violations be enumerated, investigated and if applicable tried in a court of law.


Do you really think that the Gadianton Robbers will punish one of their own?


Are you like this in real life, or just annoying on the internet?

_________________
- CV Rick
-------------------------------------------------------


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Fri Apr 24, 2009 11:57 pm 
Election Made Sure
User avatar

Joined: Tue Oct 28, 2008 4:37 pm
Posts: 447
Location: pretty how town
CV Rick wrote:
ff42 wrote:
CV Rick wrote:
I believe I was pointing out hypocrisy. I would like to see a special investigator assigned and then the violations be enumerated, investigated and if applicable tried in a court of law.


Do you really think that the Gadianton Robbers will punish one of their own?


Are you like this in real life, or just annoying on the internet?

Oh the irony.

_________________
“I was never aware of any other option but to question everything.”
― Chomsky


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Apr 25, 2009 12:18 am 
Election Made Sure
User avatar

Joined: Thu Jun 07, 2007 4:28 pm
Posts: 1744
Location: Minneapolis
Bearded Infidel wrote:
CV Rick wrote:
ff42 wrote:
CV Rick wrote:
I believe I was pointing out hypocrisy. I would like to see a special investigator assigned and then the violations be enumerated, investigated and if applicable tried in a court of law.


Do you really think that the Gadianton Robbers will punish one of their own?


Are you like this in real life, or just annoying on the internet?

Oh the irony.


so you think

_________________
- CV Rick
-------------------------------------------------------


Top
 Profile  
 
 Post subject:
PostPosted: Sat Apr 25, 2009 12:22 am 
Election Made Sure
User avatar

Joined: Mon Jan 14, 2008 1:59 am
Posts: 2293
CV Rick wrote:
ff42 wrote:
CV Rick wrote:
I believe I was pointing out hypocrisy. I would like to see a special investigator assigned and then the violations be enumerated, investigated and if applicable tried in a court of law.


Do you really think that the Gadianton Robbers will punish one of their own?


Are you like this in real life, or just annoying on the internet?


I thought it was funny...

~Vahn


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: Sat Apr 25, 2009 12:23 am 
Election Made Sure

Joined: Wed Aug 23, 2006 4:48 pm
Posts: 1647
Location: Enemy Territory
CV Rick wrote:

Quote:
In the war crimes tribunals that followed Japan's defeat in World War II, the issue of waterboarding was sometimes raised. In 1947, the U.S. charged a Japanese officer, Yukio Asano, with war crimes for waterboarding a U.S. civilian. Asano was sentenced to 15 years of hard labor.

"All of these trials elicited compelling descriptions of water torture from its victims, and resulted in severe punishment for its perpetrators," writes Evan Wallach in the Columbia Journal of Transnational Law.

On Jan. 21, 1968, The Washington Post ran a front-page photo of a U.S. soldier supervising the waterboarding of a captured North Vietnamese soldier. The caption said the technique induced "a flooding sense of suffocation and drowning, meant to make him talk." The picture led to an Army investigation and, two months later, the court martial of the soldier.

Cases of waterboarding have occurred on U.S. soil, as well. In 1983, Texas Sheriff James Parker was charged, along with three of his deputies, for handcuffing prisoners to chairs, placing towels over their faces, and pouring water on the cloth until they gave what the officers considered to be confessions. The sheriff and his deputies were all convicted and sentenced to four years in prison.


If it's not a crime, why were these people tried, convicted and sentenced?


Because we won that war, and we are winning this one, and the winner gets to make the rules.

_________________
"We perpetuate the lie that the church's needs are greater, more profound, more virtuous, and more accurate than our own."
Lola-Cola 04/07/2009


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Forum locked This topic is locked, you cannot edit posts or make further replies.  [ 16 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next

All times are UTC [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 0 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  

Protected by Anti-Spam ACP Powered by phpBB® © thefoyer.org, 2011