Further Light and Knowledge

Just had an e-mail from the bishop, telling me he needs to see me in his caoacity as bishop. I have made it clear to him that I do no longer recognise the legitimacy of his office and am not prepared to address him as bishop and will call him by his first name because I know him as a personal friend and am only willing to speak to him in that capacity. He is ultra TBM and I suspect is blissfully unaware of all the difficulties which tscc has with everything, but that no amount of evidence will destroy his testimony and it is not worth my while trying.

My strong suspicion is that he wants to see me about the recent conduct of a female member of the ward (who has done something which I strongly disapprove of) and needs my evidence as a witness against her. While I disapprove of this woman's conduct, I also disapprove of these kangaroo Courts and my view is that I should not cooperate, but have not made a final decision as yet.

Would be interested to learn the views of others, both for and against cooperating.

Hm, can I put in my vote for attempting to sabotage the whole thing? Like, go to the Court of Love and then confess what you know ... that this lady's untoward conduct has been ... with the Bishop! That would be classic.

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"You never reach any truth without making fourteen mistakes and very likely a hundred and fourteen."
—Razumihin, Crime and Punishment

If you don't consider them a legitimate authority, why would you get involved? Am I missing something?

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"You can only talk rubbish if you're aware of knowledge." --Karl Pilkington

Runtu's Rincon: http://runtu.wordpress.com

Yes, it would be amusing to do that but she has done something wrong and if I lied it would only damage my own credibility. The issue is whether I disapprove of her conduct more than I disapprove of tscc.

Is this conduct something that would have consequences outside the church?

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"You can only talk rubbish if you're aware of knowledge." --Karl Pilkington

Runtu's Rincon: http://runtu.wordpress.com

I'm sorry but who are you to decide what she has done is wrong? You may personally disagree with it but that is YOUR problem.

If she's done something illegal, turn her over to the correct authorities. If not, stay the hell out of her life as far as this is concerned. You aren't her parent. The only thing you need to worry about is whether or not whatever she's done is something that YOU want to end your friendship over. Otherwise, it ends there.

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Sometimes I make my kids wear sombreros and scuba fins around the house. Not because there is any reason. I just want to teach them obedience.--Darth J

Don't want to go into too much detail and it was left vague on purpose. However, if it was adultery then there would two disciplinary Councils, one for each participant, and my view is that a woman should not feel obliged to remain in an abusive marriage.

Then there's your answer. Why help the church punish her?

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"You can only talk rubbish if you're aware of knowledge." --Karl Pilkington

Runtu's Rincon: http://runtu.wordpress.com

If I were in a similar situation, I would simply boycott any participation in the process.

Tell them if they want to "try" her in their silly little make-believe court, then you'll have no part in the farce.

I think you can make it clear that you aren't doing it because of how you feel about the woman's behavior, but because of how you feel about the Church's (i.e., the Bishop's) behavior.

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Nèg fè, nèg defè. -- Haitian proverb

It's either a legal issue and a matter for the police, or it's a moral issue and while it may be repugnant, it isn't illegal. Either way, the church is an illegitimate authority.

Unless this woman is your wife or daughter, or is being abused, is this mysterious matter even any of your business, much less the church's?

if you aren't ready to out yourself yet, you can always quote that scripture about god being the only one who can judge or whatever. Just say that you believe that concept completely and feel the matter is between her and heavenly father, there are no 'blessings' the church can withhold from her bc heavenly father knows what he wants to bless her with and what he doesn't.

In my honest opinion, unles someone is in danger I don't think there is any reason to cooperate with them in this manner. Even if she were stealing from the church I would go to the authorities and let them deal with the church. I had a very TBM friend who refused to testify in a court for his friend accused of apostasy and they did nothing to him for it.
The question I would have to answer would be which why would I rather face myself in the morning... having cooperated with them or having refused to be a part of it?

jax

Yes, if she did something illegal then turn her in to the authorities. If she has commited child abuse, animal abuse, elder abuse, then report it and testify to help bring her to justice.

Her marriage, sexual activity, church activity and general morals are of nobody elses business. Decline the invitation to testify. I have had two courts and they are a joke. I only wish I knew then what I know now.
Though I'd be ex'd for not attending if it were a do-over.

I suggest you stay out of it unless there are innocent victims. Two adults having sex is not your concern, even if you don't agree with the activity.

If she is a victim of abuse in her marriage, offer her a hotline number.

Yes.... what he said...but since this is a internet forum, it would be helpful to know what she did.