| View previous topic :: View next topic |
| Author |
Message |
junesu
Election Made Sure
Joined: 14 Sep 2006
Posts: 1590
Location: Utah County
|
 Posted: Fri Jul 17, 2009 12:10 am Post subject: |
 |
|
| GhostPuma wrote: |
Once upon a time, there was a wise man who used to go to the ocean to do his writing. He had a habit of walking on the beach before he began his work.
One day, as he was walking along the shore, he looked down the beach and saw a human figure moving like a dancer. He smiled to himself at the thought of someone who would dance to the day, and so, he walked faster to catch up.
As he got closer, he noticed that the figure was that of a young man, and that what he was doing was not dancing at all. The young man was reaching down to the shore, picking up small objects, and throwing them into the ocean.
He came closer still and called out "Good morning! May I ask what it is that you are doing?"
The young man paused, looked up, and replied "Throwing starfish into the ocean."
"I must ask, then, why are you throwing starfish into the ocean?" asked the somewhat startled wise man.
To this, the young man replied, "The sun is up and the tide is going out. If I don't throw them in, they'll die."
Upon hearing this, the wise man commented, "But, young man, do you not realize that there are miles and miles of beach and there are starfish all along every mile? You can't possibly make a difference!"
At this, the young man bent down, picked up yet another starfish, and threw it into the ocean. As it met the water, he said, "It made a difference for that one." |
First time in a very long time I've been reminded of sacrament meetings.
_________________
He never said it would be worth it; He only said it would be easy. |
|
| Back to top |
|
 |
tolworthy
still here?
Joined: 23 Aug 2006
Posts: 1898
Location: Scotland
|
| Posted: Fri Jul 17, 2009 12:41 am Post subject: |
|
|
| GhostPuma wrote: | "why are you throwing starfish into the ocean?" asked the somewhat startled wise man.
To this, the young man replied, "The sun is up and the tide is going out. If I don't throw them in, they'll die."
Upon hearing this, the wise man commented, "But, young man, do you not realize that there are miles and miles of beach and there are starfish all along every mile? You can't possibly make a difference!"
At this, the young man bent down, picked up yet another starfish, and threw it into the ocean. As it met the water, he said, "It made a difference for that one." |
Nobody ever quotes the end of that story.
| the wise man who loves starfish wrote: | The wise man shook his head sadly and put his hand on the young man's shoulder. "Do you know why there are millions of starfish dying on the beach, my son?"
"Because God is cruel?" asked the boy, hesitantly.
"A lot of people think so, but no." Replied the wise man, kindly. "It is part of the cycle of life. For countless millennia the starfish have ended their lives peacefully on this beach, quietly contemplating the sun. They then provide food for the many endangered species of coastal bird life. When you remove that food source, those little birds will die.
"But it meant something to that starfish!" said the boy.
"The starfish does not have a complex brain, my son" said the wise man. "But the little birds do. Before there was no suffering. Now, with their food source removed, a little bird will die and its mother will look for it, calling its name, and there will be no answer."
"I never thought of it like that" said the boy, slowly.
"Do you know how much food there is in the sea for the starfish, my friend?" Asked the wise man, after a long pause. The young man did not know. "Enough for a certain number of starfish. Otherwise the number of starfish would increase until they filled the sea, and plainly that is not so. When you return one starfish to the sea, it will eat food that another starfish needed, and that other starfish will die."
There was a long pause as the waves continued to crash onto the sand.
"And do you know the concept of inheritance?" Asked the wise man, gently. The young man shook his head. The wise man continued. "Some starfish are more likely you be washed up on the beach. They don't have offspring. The food they would have eaten goes to the starfish who know not to venture close to the beach. That is how starfish learn to stay in the water. But when you return them to the sea they have offspring, and those offspring end up dying on the beach. Do you know how many offspring a single starfish can have?" The boy shook his head again, but didn't want to know the answer. "For every starfish you save, you condemn many more to death."
"And you see that beautiful coral reef out there in the ocean?" The young man shielded his eyes and saw, just beneath the waves, the most beautiful sight that had ever met his eyes. "Starfish are not endangered, but coral is. That coral, and the millions of species that depend upon it, is fighting for its life." There was a long pause. "Do you know what starfish eat?" asked the wise man. The young man said nothing. Somehow he already knew the answer.
The wise man began to speak again. The young man wished he wouldn't. "Do you know how many people die of starvation every hour, my friend?" The young man did not know. "About a thousand." There was another pause. "And you believe that the best use of your time is in saving starfish?" There was another long pause. "I understand your thinking, my friend. Humans are causing the extinction of many species, so it is right to let them die." There was another pause. "The funny thing is though, starfish are not endangered."
They two of them gazed out to sea for several minutes. Finally the wise man spoke again. "You look like an intelligent boy, my son. You have a fine head on your shoulders. If you really wanted to save the starfish I know you could think of far more efficient means, such as getting involved in marine research, or at least spending a couple of minutes on Google. What was the real reason you were throwing starfish?
"I ran out of flat stones to skim" came the barely audible reply. |
_________________
P.S.
I agree with everything ever posted by Hellmut, Philo and Susan D.
------------------------and on a completely different topic, I make classic books into games
Last edited by tolworthy on Fri Jul 17, 2009 12:55 am; edited 2 times in total |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
GhostPuma
Election Made Sure
Joined: 24 Feb 2009
Posts: 140
Location: Can't, there're watching!
|
| Posted: Fri Jul 17, 2009 12:53 am Post subject: |
|
|
Tolworthy, thank you that ending!!!!!  
Now I officially have nothing of value from TSCC, that was the last thing I actually remembered from seminary that meant something! I wish someone would tell that ending in sacrament!
_________________
Lead me not into tempation
I can find it myself |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Stormin Post Mormon
Bordeaux-Swilling Euro-Lover
Joined: 01 Sep 2006
Posts: 1723
Location: Salt Lake County
|
| Posted: Fri Jul 17, 2009 8:45 am Post subject: |
|
|
No kidding. That was awesome. With your permission, Tolworthy, I think I may post that as a note on my Facebook page.
_________________
"If my life is mine,
what shouldn’t I do?"
--"Help, I'm Alive", Metric |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
tolworthy
still here?
Joined: 23 Aug 2006
Posts: 1898
Location: Scotland
|
| Posted: Fri Jul 17, 2009 1:52 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| Stormin Post Mormon wrote: | | With your permission |
Go ahead! Anybody can copy any of my Mormon related stuff (as long as they don't misrepresent it). I'm just flattered that anyone likes it.
Actually, I hope that parody doesn't come across as too cynical. I don't really mind is someone wants to save starfish, even if it is a foolish idea. My real problem is that the boy on the beach could do much better but he doesn't care.
_________________
P.S.
I agree with everything ever posted by Hellmut, Philo and Susan D.
------------------------and on a completely different topic, I make classic books into games |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
cumom
Election Made Sure
Joined: 22 Aug 2006
Posts: 6847
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
Subversive Asset 2.0
Election Made Sure
Joined: 31 May 2009
Posts: 229
Location: Lawton, OK or College Station, TX
|
|
| Back to top |
|
|
cumom
Election Made Sure
Joined: 22 Aug 2006
Posts: 6847
|
| Posted: Sat Jul 18, 2009 10:35 am Post subject: |
|
|
| Subversive Asset 2.0 wrote: | http://www.youtube.com/user/pennsays#play/user/811BDAB1D3302923/3/EAF2NuAI9EU
didn't you mean this one?
I think this is quite rightfully stated.
EDIT: Oh, I see what you did there. When you link directly to the video, it gets you a load error. |
Yes, I meant the atheism v. agnosticism vid. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
GhostPuma
Election Made Sure
Joined: 24 Feb 2009
Posts: 140
Location: Can't, there're watching!
|
| Posted: Sat Jul 18, 2009 2:01 pm Post subject: |
|
|
I watched the Penn video and I think he's right on target. If you haven't watched he's discussing atheist vs. agnostic and eventually comes to a question he would ask everyone to decide if they believe in a 'god'. The question is 'if god asked you to kill your child, would you do it?". That's why I always thought the Abraham story was horrible and exactly the opposite of what should have happened. If there is a 'god' why would he ask you to kill your own child? Doesn't that break some commandment that he supposedly wanted everyone to follow? I say Abraham was a complete tool, the fact that he not only had to think about it but was going to follow through shows just how destructive religion can be. Does no one remember the lady who killed her three children because god commanded her. Maybe we should tell that story in church as a great example of obedience.
_________________
Lead me not into tempation
I can find it myself |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
ff42
Election Made Sure
Joined: 10 Sep 2008
Posts: 523
|
| Posted: Sat Jul 18, 2009 5:42 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| GhostPuma wrote: | | I watched the Penn video and I think he's right on target. If you haven't watched he's discussing atheist vs. agnostic and eventually comes to a question he would ask everyone to decide if they believe in a 'god'. The question is 'if god asked you to kill your child, would you do it?". That's why I always thought the Abraham story was horrible and exactly the opposite of what should have happened. If there is a 'god' why would he ask you to kill your own child? Doesn't that break some commandment that he supposedly wanted everyone to follow? I say Abraham was a complete tool, the fact that he not only had to think about it but was going to follow through shows just how destructive religion can be. Does no one remember the lady who killed her three children because god commanded her. Maybe we should tell that story in church as a great example of obedience. |
I had a bishop who said that he would kill his son (about 4 years old at the time with only sister siblings).
_________________
”Most of the harm in the world is done by good people, and not by accident, lapse, or omission. It is the result of their deliberate actions, long persevered in, which they hold to be motivated by high ideals toward virtuous ends.” - Isabel Paterson |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
cumom
Election Made Sure
Joined: 22 Aug 2006
Posts: 6847
|
| Posted: Sat Jul 18, 2009 6:04 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| ff42 wrote: | | GhostPuma wrote: | | I watched the Penn video and I think he's right on target. If you haven't watched he's discussing atheist vs. agnostic and eventually comes to a question he would ask everyone to decide if they believe in a 'god'. The question is 'if god asked you to kill your child, would you do it?". That's why I always thought the Abraham story was horrible and exactly the opposite of what should have happened. If there is a 'god' why would he ask you to kill your own child? Doesn't that break some commandment that he supposedly wanted everyone to follow? I say Abraham was a complete tool, the fact that he not only had to think about it but was going to follow through shows just how destructive religion can be. Does no one remember the lady who killed her three children because god commanded her. Maybe we should tell that story in church as a great example of obedience. |
I had a bishop who said that he would kill his son (about 4 years old at the time with only sister siblings). |
This goes back to that mind-boggling thing in monotheism (especially conservative/fundamentalist strands) where violence becomes the proof of loyalty to the god. It is evil on its face. I heard so many times between the MTC and BYU graduation people waxing serious with the spirit burning in their bosoms bearing testimony of Abraham's faith. What the fuck ever. |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
GhostPuma
Election Made Sure
Joined: 24 Feb 2009
Posts: 140
Location: Can't, there're watching!
|
| Posted: Sat Jul 18, 2009 7:59 pm Post subject: |
|
|
| ff42 wrote: | | GhostPuma wrote: | | I watched the Penn video and I think he's right on target. If you haven't watched he's discussing atheist vs. agnostic and eventually comes to a question he would ask everyone to decide if they believe in a 'god'. The question is 'if god asked you to kill your child, would you do it?". That's why I always thought the Abraham story was horrible and exactly the opposite of what should have happened. If there is a 'god' why would he ask you to kill your own child? Doesn't that break some commandment that he supposedly wanted everyone to follow? I say Abraham was a complete tool, the fact that he not only had to think about it but was going to follow through shows just how destructive religion can be. Does no one remember the lady who killed her three children because god commanded her. Maybe we should tell that story in church as a great example of obedience. |
I had a bishop who said that he would kill his son (about 4 years old at the time with only sister siblings). |
Obviously god is able to contradict himself whenever he wants. Don't kill because you will go to hell but when i need you to, feel free to murder whoever i give you permission. Nothing like a little child to murder as they go straight to heaven, just make sure they're not eight and it's golden.(I wish i could be more sarcastic than this)
It's sheer madness and insanely infuriating for the lack of logic, reasoning, and disregard for life. How anyone could actually say they would take a life if commanded is beyond me, their 4 year old son at that. They should at the very minimum have the child taken away. Imagine explaining that to child services... "I said I'd only kill the boy if god commanded".
_________________
Lead me not into tempation
I can find it myself |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
GhostPuma
Election Made Sure
Joined: 24 Feb 2009
Posts: 140
Location: Can't, there're watching!
|
| Posted: Sat Jul 18, 2009 10:03 pm Post subject: |
|
|
_________________
Lead me not into tempation
I can find it myself |
|
| Back to top |
|
|
|
|
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum
|
Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group
|
FAQ
Search
Memberlist
Usergroups
Chat
Register
Log in to check your private messages
Log in
