Further Light and Knowledge

I have recently left the church(after 17 years) because I could not disregard the mountain of objective evidence disproving so much of what the church believes in. I was a member of the Bishopric and have been a faithful member my entire life. I have been open with my family and even visited with my Bishop to inform him of my new beliefs. My wife is supportive and does not believe in many of the absolute doctrines of our church.- but she believes that it is good for our family in spite of that. To me it's like Santa Clause. It's more fun for the kids to believe in the magic of Santa so we propagate the lie, but this "salvation" is there a happiness worth the lie of the church? We have settled on haveing thought provoking conversations every sunday noght where the kids have to have an opinion on many of our controversial church doctrines. Will righteousness lighten your skin? Would God tell you to lie? Is a "prophet" always right? Can they stear the church wrong? I believe in many of the practical ideas of the church, but the way that it discourages critical thought along with all of the other stuff make it difficult to undo all of the nonsense with regards to my children. I have a 14 yr old, 11 year old, 8 year old, and a 4 year old. I'm sure this thread exists somewhere else, but I couldn't find it. Are others dealing with this and what are you doing? Thank you for your help?

There are lots of people going through this. It sounds like you have a pretty good start going, but if you are in the negotiating stage I would avoid agreeing to things too quickly. You may not feel 100% good about those decisions a few months down the line.

I think the real key is making sure that you are able to speak your mind to your children, always. I see one of the main mistakes people make is agreeing that their TBM spouse is the only one allowed to share their opinions on religion and God, and that is a HUGE mistake. You are an equal parent, and should have an equal say in how your children are raised.

Other than that though, it is really up to you what you feel comfortable with. But like I said, don't agree to permanent solutions yet. I know for me when we first went through our disaffection, my wife and I were of the opinion that the church was at least a decent place to raise our kids. However over time, and the further we were outside the church, the more we saw the warts and problems, and we decided we didn't want that influence on our kids.

Now that was us, and we were on the same page. With a TBM spouse you are going to have to agree to some church attendance most likely. But I wouldn't agree now that they attend every Sunday until they are 18 for example, or that you will not say anything that the church wouldn't agree with. Tell your wife that it works for you for now that they continue to attend, but may change in the future.

One other piece of advice.......go overboard with love for your wife. Help her realize that you are committed 100% to her, even as you are no longer committed to the church.

Thanks. I think that is great advice. In the 2 months I have become disaffected I have began to see many of the major compromises that I would have to make in order to accept 100% church participation and support. My wife and I have been up and down throughout this process(over a year) but it seems like she is really struggling with leaving the culture and tradition of church not the doctrine.-she sees the circular logic and numerous holes in the doctrine. I have tried really hard to not condescend or belittle what beliefs regarding the church that she has, but many have said the type of member you are is also the type of nonmember you are and it is true. I was a very committed member because I believed and felt that if you had character you practiced what you believed. Now I feel the same way just in the opposites direction. I'm not disrespectful with regards to the church but I am principally opposed to the church in the same way that I was principally converted to the church. thanks for the response.

I am not in your position, but SO MANY people are. You got some great advice from Star Stuff. I just want to double up on the not agreeing to things that you may not approve of later. I have heard a lot of people who feel like they gave away too many "rights" with their kids in this regard. Can you get a compromise that gives them every other Sunday to worship or not worship with you and have an equal say?

_________________
God's wool be done ~ Colbert
Oh, and 1999!!!!

You say your wife is having difficulty leaving the culture and tradition of the church... would both of you be interested in maybe trying out some other churches every other week or once a month? Perhaps propose it as an experiment that either of you could call off at any time (no pressure)? Maybe a church/congregation you both could agree on that would have a similar spiritually and morally edifying experience for her and the children? I'm not religious myself, but I can understand why someone would be hesitant to leave that community.

When I left I had already "confided" in the children that I did not believe but told them "it was a secret". That worked as I realised that the children did not believe either, even though they had not told either of us. The response was that they did not believe either (no real surprise there!). They did not want to go, so when DW tried to take them I had to put my foot down quite firmly, telling her that "no way was that cult going to mess with my children's heads any more against their will". It caused a lot of tears at the time, but further down the line it's worth it as the influence of tscc is now much weaker.

In short, I am not saying it is easy taking them out of church, but I am saying it is worth it!

_________________
Mankind is evil because God made man in his own image.

There's really no reason to listen to my advice. So, just remember that as you read this.

Within 5 years of getting married (way to young and way to naive and stupid) I started having serious doubts. When those doubts translated into not wanting to attend church, it became such a wedge in our marriage that I caved in and said, "I'll stick with it for the kids."

Well, 25 years, two bishoprics, two high councils and 20+ years of scouting later my children are all adults and this past summer I was going insane and just quit. It still causes friction in our marriage, but next month is our 30th anniversary, so we must at least be able to stand each other. (Yes, we got married on December 30th in Idaho Falls and that just tells you how stupid we were. The only picture we have of us at the temple on our wedding day is the typical "white cow in a blizzard" picture.)

I am trying to come to grips (through counseling) with the choices I've made and I'm not really happy that I raised my kids in the church. But, I was probably too stupid to do a very good job of it without the church. Maybe if I'd waited until I was 30 to have kids (instead of 23) I might have had some clue, but the church helped the young and stupid version of me.

My son did pretty well. We did most of his scouting experiences together and that helped. But, I think my daughters could have done better without the church. They have the typical black-and-white, my-only-purpose-in-life-is-to-be-a-wife-and-mother that he church instills in the YW program. Neither is married yet, but at 28 years old my oldest is adrift in life because it didn't follow the plan of getting married as soon as possible. In that respect, the church set her up for disappointment and probably failure. Within a week of coming home from her mission she said, "I don't want to be an adult and make decisions. I just want to go back on my mission where it is all laid out for you and you know what to do every day." I think if you asked her (6 years later) she would say the same thing. Sadly.

But, if I've learned nothing else, I've learned that every family and situation is different and you can listen to our stories, but you need to make your own decisions. (You probably know that and I don't mean to sound condescending, just stating the obvious.)