Further Light and Knowledge

i didn't even get to learn a language.

http://www.cnbc.com/id/15840232?play=1&video=1519591548


lol...and u gotta love the end about the sister using her mission skills to raise 5 kids.

I wonder if they compared and contrasted the LDS mission skills to a group like the peace corps - what they would find.

_________________
my blog

It certainly makes sense that the skills learned as a missionary would benefit someone in the business world. But what does that say about what a mission is really like?

Those were my thoughts exactly. What it prepares you for is how to operate in a hierarchical corporate (sales) environment.

_________________
The apple cannot be stuck back on the Tree of Knowledge; once we begin to see, we are doomed and challenged to seek the strength to see more, not less. ~ Arthur Miller

I agree. i wish there was a like button on here like facebook so i could just click that instead of say "i agree"

I think this is one way that the mission really fucked with my sense of self worth. Up until that point in my life, I had learned that it's okay to suck at something, because we're all good at different things. It's not the end of the world if you suck at basketball, maybe you have a talent for music or drama. Maybe math doesn't come easy to you, but you have a gift for writing.

But on the mission, if you suck at sales, it's never because you just don't happen to have a knack for it. It's because you are lazy, disobedient, unworthy, and for whatever reason, the Lord has not seen fit to bless you. Meanwhile, guys who are good at sales are held up as examples of worthiness and diligence, regardless of how they actually behave. (If you can't tell, even though I followed the rules and worked hard, I was not a good salesman.)

It's truly fucked up how they equate one particular set of skills and personalities with righteousness and favor before God. Of course, it does mirror how the church is run at all levels, so I guess it's good that people learn early on where they stack up.

in interviews with returned missionaries and church officials, there was one recurring statement about the effect of mission: it prepares you for marriage - as i read it: "for a certain amount of time, to spend all of the day with a person you have not known before and maybe will never meet again afterwards, a person that you probably do not like at all is a good training for marriage" (not taking into account the same-sex-aspect...) - is this something that is taught (or thought, at least, publicly) by any GA's, MP's and the like? (edited for spelling corrections)

_________________
'And it came to pass' was his pet. If he had left that out, his Bible would have been only a pamphlet.
Mark Twain on JS & BoM

A good clip. They do mention that the men are the ones that move into the business world and the women are to have families.

I think they overstate the business influence of members. There may be a lot of LDS on Wall Street but I'm sure there are many people of different faiths there too.
Does a missionary really learn to sell? I couldn't hazard a guess but my gut says no.

_________________
CW

The universe likes to laugh at us

Personally I felt like a used car salesman almost my entire mission, I hated that feeling. However I do feel like I'm better equipped to handle the used-car sales type because of my mission.

Here's what was pounded into my head for the 2 months I was in the MTC
The commitment pattern
1. Build a relationship of trust
2. Teach the truth and invite the Spirit
3. Extend commitments
4. Resolve concerns
5. Baptize (I added this one because it's what the ultimate goal of the commitment pattern is)

The only difference between what was pounded into our heads in the MTC and what you learn as a salesperson is that #2 is modified to whatever product it is you're selling.

_________________
I'm not sorry, I like to get laid. --Mercury

I took roughly 1/3 of my available vacation for the year to chase 12- and 13-year old boys through the woods. --Mcarp

Oh, you bet a missionary learns to sell. They are totally on top of that. Sales techniques are really big, though they don't call them "sales techniques." In fact, I remember reading some material (not official church-sanctioned, but written by a guy had been a mission president and help developed a lot of their materials) that talked about Inspired Principals that had come into the church through modern business and sales techniques to improve missionary work (sort of like how technology, space-age transportation and anti-depressants have all been revealed by the Lord in order to help spread the gospel in these latter days).

The problem is they also try to mix it all in with spiritual type principals ("if ye labor all your days and bring it be but one soul, blah, blah, blah" vs. "convert thousands! We shall be as the sons of Mosiah! If you are keeping the rules, you'll have the Spirit and you'll have a gazillion baps, etc., etc., etc.). Those concepts are inherently at war with each other. So you can sort of try to go by the spiritual side, but that doesn't really bring stunning results. So then you kind of fall into the aggressive sales-pitch side and you can probably persuade or coerce a lot of people into being dunked. Or you can do some mixture of the two and have sort of a randomized pattern of conversion success. And guilt. Lots of guilt. You're not there to sell! You're there to bring the world his truth! You're called to SERVE! But you kinda know what you're doing is selling. And frankly, not much "serving" went on on my mission. Too busy selling. And if you aren't selling 24-7 then you are NOT WORTHY. If you are worthy then you will have SALES.

Or none. No matter what you do. Because if the product SUCKS, or if the spiritual TRUTH you are transmitting is actually a lie, then all the selling or all the praying in the world is not going to help you much.

So I would say, by my gut and by my experience missionaries are absolutely taught to "sell." Pretty much in all but name. Some learn it better than others and some see at as bullshit and let is slide off. Or some combination of the two. But selling is definitely what you're there to do.

_________________
The apple cannot be stuck back on the Tree of Knowledge; once we begin to see, we are doomed and challenged to seek the strength to see more, not less. ~ Arthur Miller

OK, that post was confusing even to me. Did I just sound like OSWIT?

It's been a long day....

_________________
The apple cannot be stuck back on the Tree of Knowledge; once we begin to see, we are doomed and challenged to seek the strength to see more, not less. ~ Arthur Miller

Only when you capitalize -- ha ha. No, you are right on. Missionary work = sales. We heard about the "commitment" pattern in the field, and we hear about it in the sales world. I sucked at sales on the mission, and swore I would never EVER EVER EVER (capitalization!) try to sell anything, including religion, after I got home.

Of course, I lapsed once when I gave a friend a Book of Mormon, and immediately lost her as a friend.

"Winning the hearts and minds ..." also sounds like a sales job.

Not to put down all sales people. There are those who just let the product talk, then facilitate the sale instead of coerce it.

(shut up, you second-guessing overactive conscience. you never win, you know)

Thinking about it some more......
Missionaries learn sales techniques but do they learn to sell?

I suspect that they learn one sales skill, the commitment pattern, and one way to present it.
Also,

In two years, how many people do they actually make a pitch to?
In two years, when do their sales skills peak?
How many, upon entry to the MTC, and are not salesmen are salesmen after two years. Sorry, females need not apply.

_________________
CW

The universe likes to laugh at us

Can't stand Erin Burnett so I didn't watch the clip.

The mormon pitch taught in the MTC (the commitment pattern) is brilliant salesmanship. The whole world would be mormons by now if the product wasn't such crap.

Missions are about converting the missionary above all else. However, once we return, like any other life experience we reflect upon, we extract whatever added value it has given to our life and emphasize that as the positive. (that's the only way I can explain a sister saying it gave her kid raising skills

_________________
Let us read and let us dance: two amusements that will never do any harm to the world.
- Voltaire

I quickly laugh at everything, for fear of having to cry.
- Pierre de Beaumarchais

Or marriage skills to anybody, male or female, for that matter. My strategy with difficult comps was just to keep telling myself; This will all be over soon, I can put up with ANYTHING for a few more weeks. I didn't really improve in interpersonal stuff on my mission. lol

_________________
The apple cannot be stuck back on the Tree of Knowledge; once we begin to see, we are doomed and challenged to seek the strength to see more, not less. ~ Arthur Miller