Further Light and Knowledge

yes, it's me. i hope all of you are very well.

richard abanes

Richard!

Good to see you over here! Welcome!

Ric

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People Who Don't Want Their Beliefs Laughed At Shouldn't Have Such Funny Beliefs.

Welcome to the board, Richard. One Nation Under Gods is well-researched and is one of the better books out there, with a relatively unbiased view of early church history. I was pretty much already out when I read it, but it helped tip me over the edge by puttiing everything in perspective.

NE

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Never try to teach a pig to sing. It wastes your time and it annoys the pig.

I was turned off to the book because I heard Richard Abanes promoting it on the Bible Answer Man radio show with Hank Hanegraff (sp). What a pompous ass that guy is (Hank, not Richard). I have no stomach for evangelical Christian anti-Mormonism, which amounts to people mocking one set of dubious faith claims while simultaneously promoting an equally preposterous set of their own. Just my opinion, of course. YMMV.

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"Let go of what you know and honor what exists."--David Bazan

http://www.equalitysblog.typepad.com

Hey Northern,

Glad you enjoyed the book and found it helpful.

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Yo Equality,

Peace to you. Anyone ever tell you that you look like Russell Crowe? Hmm, Prolly not. Anyway, I hope that someday you give ONUG a read. You might find it interesting. Ya know, my books have been bought, sold, and distributed by a lot of people -- the same way we all buy many different kinds of stuff from all different kinds of places/people. So that's really neither here nor there with regard to the book's contents. I can understand you not wanting to financially support a person/organization you dislike, so I'd say to simply get it from somewhere else. Also, I would disagree with your assessment that evangelical beliefs are "equally preposterous" as many Mormon claims. But that would be a loooooong discussion. Basically, all I really want to say is I do not think ONUG is "mocking" of Mormonism. But it does discuss its darker aspects and flaws. (Oh, and just so you know, I'm kind of an equal opportunity critic. In my book End Time Visions as well as in my book American Militias, I criticized evangelical peeps for a wide variety of things.)

laters...............

Richard--I read somewhere that some of your fellow evangelicals have distanced themselves from you because of your association with Rick Warren. What's up with that?

Welcome, Richard.

Now, that would make for an interesting discussion, wouldn't it. We could have someone name a preposterous Mormon claim and then see if we could match it with an equally preposterous evangelical Christian claim. I'm game. Who wants to start?

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"Let go of what you know and honor what exists."--David Bazan

http://www.equalitysblog.typepad.com

The Flood was a world-wide event = The Flood was a world-wide event

The Book of Mormon contains the inerrant Word of God = The Bible contains the inerrant Word of God

God prefers men to be His messengers = God prefers men to be His messengers

Masturbation is wrong = Masturbation is wrong

>Richard--I read somewhere that some of your fellow evangelicals have distanced themselves from you because of your association with Rick Warren. What's up with that?

Hi Dumpster,

As far as I know, there are no evangelicals of any importance to me who have distanced themselves from me as a result of my support for Rick Warren. In fact, one of the most well-known and respected evangelical discernment/counter-cult ministries in America -- Watchman Fellowship -- is carrying my book on Rick Warren. Also, after the publication of my book on Rick Warren, I wrote an opinion piece for the Southern Baptist Journal of Theology about how one should witness to Mormons (Summer 2005, pp. 79-81). And I certainly haven't lost any friends over the issue.

However, I will say that the following have indeed cut ties with me:

1) a significant number of zealous fundamentalists (mostly), who condemn just about everyone outside their little circle of like-minded fanatics -- these are the same sort of folks who say Billy Graham is practically the anti-Christ;
2) several fringe and small-sized evangelical cult-watcher organizations (I'll not call them ministries) that are not very reputable or respected due to their witch-hunting techniques, lack of researching care, and inability to sift through complex issues; and
3) various apologists in the denominational church (especially hard-core Lutherans), who are bent on attacking Warren over his unwillingness to support divisive sectarianism.

No great loss to me, TBH. Besides, even if it were a great loss, the truth is still the truth. I can sleep at night having written a book that truthfully details the beliefs of a guy who is trying his hardest to spread the gospel message and bring people to God.

These other folks, however, seem to care very little for truth, but instead, are preoccupied with tearing down others, inventing stories, spreading proven lies, dividing the church, or pulling people into their way of thinking about EVERYTHING (their way or the highway) -- and all along clinging to their odd idea that what they are doing is being done for God. Very strange, indeed.

I mention some of the ways I have been attacked on my RUMOR CONTROL page at my website. And, lol, I gotta say, most of the Mormons I've spoken to have been nicer to me than these peeps. So, you can imagine . . . .

R. Abanes

The last thing in the world Mormons need is to be "witnessed" to. What they need is a break from magical thinking and testimony-bearing by people who believe they "know" things by feelings and through mystical experiences. They don't need to trade a 19th-century magical worldview for Bronze Age superstitions.

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"Let go of what you know and honor what exists."--David Bazan

http://www.equalitysblog.typepad.com

Jesus was Resurrected=Jesus was Resurrected

Jesus was Divine=Jesus was Divine

Mary was a Virgin when she conceived Jesus=Mary was a Virgin when she conceived Jesus

The earth is 6000 years old=The earth is 6000 years old

Evolution is false=evolution is false

An angel gave John a book (and he ate it)=An angel gave Joseph Smith a book (and he "translated it")

God hates homosexuals=God hates homosexuals.

Hey, this is easy...

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"Let go of what you know and honor what exists."--David Bazan

http://www.equalitysblog.typepad.com

I agree with you about witnessing to Mormons, Equality....and I'm on the Christian side of the belief fence.

I'm a firm believer that witnessing does more harm than good in 99.999% of cases. If someone had witnessed to me either as a Mormon or once I left, I would have been completely turned off. It just doesn't strike me as an effective tool at all. \

That said, I'm not particularly inclined to think that someone who doesn't believe telling me all the reasons why I shouldn't is particularly effective, either. Witnessing happens on both sides of the issue. It's just not called that when you're not a Christian.

It is your personal duty to convince everyone else they are wrong = It is your personal duty to convince everyone else they are wrong

There's only one way to get into heaven (our way, so pay up)=There's only one way to get to heaven (the highest degree anyway, so pay up).

God talks to men face to face and calls them to be prophets (but not anymore)=God talks to men face to face and calls them to prophets (but if he still does they won't talk about it because it's too sacred).

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"Let go of what you know and honor what exists."--David Bazan

http://www.equalitysblog.typepad.com