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Chemical Castration for Mormon Homos
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cumom
Election Made Sure

Joined: 22 Aug 2006
Posts: 6852

Posted: Wed Jun 10, 2009 3:58 pm Post subject:

tibber wrote:

cumom wrote:

In any case, Wry, I wouldn't worry about it too much. It's skull-splittingly ignorant banter by people who can't believe how cool they are for coming up with a way for gay people to stay mormon!

What about the gay people who buy into this shit? I had an gay, recently baptized, gentlemen over to my house for thanksgiving a few years ago. He was openly gay even bore his testimony about it and happily LDS and seemed to be looking forward to a life of forced sexlessness. Super nice, my kids loved him as did my wife and I, but I couldn't help, even as a TBM, but feel incredibly sad for him and his future. He moved to AZ shortly after our thanksgiving dinner, so I don't know what happened to him, but I hope he eventually woke up to the ignorance and audacity of it all. How common is this attitude among gay members?

It's pretty common and not just among Mormons. Remember, the whole idea that homosexuals could live independent lives *as* homosexuals and as free and equal individuals is less than 100 years old.* When cultural identity and community belonging are tight, they can easily push someone into behavior that might not be best for them individually. It's partly self-hatred, but also just partly human need to *belong* and to find a meaningful place in life. I have known a couple of gay mormons who "bore their testimonies" about it openly, etc. Academically, I see it as another way to be homosexual/gay. Personally, it makes my stomach churn; it puts me into a great deal of distress. The closet, the enforced foreclosure of a part of oneself, is ultimately destructive psychologically and emotionally. People have to make their own decisions and they choose things I would never choose; intellectually I get that, but viscerally it's unfathomable.

*In Germany, it started as a small movement in the 1890s; it hit the U.S. first in about 1920. It was pushed underground and stifled around the western world by World War II, when it was re-pathologized by the medical establishment and enforced by the police/military. It was in the post-war period a primarily American movement from about 1948-mid-1960s when it started gaining steam in Europe again (Scandinavian countries quietly decriminalized homosexuality in the 1940s, with little fanfare; but it took major protests and legal battles in UK, Germany, and France and southern Europe; Eastern Europe is still in the dark ages).

aerin
Election Made Sure

Joined: 05 Dec 2007
Posts: 2017
Location: threadkiller

Posted: Wed Jun 10, 2009 5:43 pm Post subject:

cumom wrote:

*In Germany, it started as a small movement in the 1890s; it hit the U.S. first in about 1920. It was pushed underground and stifled around the western world by World War II, when it was re-pathologized by the medical establishment and enforced by the police/military.

Thanks for this history cumom. Also - some people don't know that gays were targeted/murdered during the holocaust - and the Soviets didn't release some of the gays they found in the camps. I'm not sure if I have a reference for that but I can look if necessary.

There were many groups targeted by Nazi Germany.

eta - changed a bracket...and changed realize to release. Makes a difference.
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Last edited by aerin on Thu Jun 11, 2009 6:22 am; edited 1 time in total

red shoe
Election Made Sure

Joined: 22 Feb 2009
Posts: 420

Posted: Wed Jun 10, 2009 6:54 pm Post subject:

I am so flabbergasted that someone would even think of such a thing. I could only read a few of the responses. I was happy to see not everyone thought it was so great.

DoubleX
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Joined: 01 Dec 2008
Posts: 1048

Posted: Wed Jun 10, 2009 7:38 pm Post subject:

Who in history ultimately decided that homosexuality was 'wrong?'

tibber
huh?

Joined: 01 Dec 2008
Posts: 1236
Location: wisconsin

Posted: Wed Jun 10, 2009 7:57 pm Post subject:

DoubleX wrote:

Who in history ultimately decided that homosexuality was 'wrong?'

A guy named Stan back in 1534 AD.
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Sometimes in order to find understanding, we 'pee outside the box. --DoubleX

I'm not sorry, I like to get laid. --Mercury

tibber
huh?

Joined: 01 Dec 2008
Posts: 1236
Location: wisconsin

Posted: Wed Jun 10, 2009 7:58 pm Post subject:

cumom wrote:

tibber wrote:

cumom wrote:

In any case, Wry, I wouldn't worry about it too much. It's skull-splittingly ignorant banter by people who can't believe how cool they are for coming up with a way for gay people to stay mormon!

This is why I asked. Thank you.
_________________
Sometimes in order to find understanding, we 'pee outside the box. --DoubleX

I'm not sorry, I like to get laid. --Mercury

Logos
Prying open my third eye

Joined: 24 Jul 2008
Posts: 816

Posted: Wed Jun 10, 2009 8:05 pm Post subject:

wry catcher wrote:

I get a "forbidden" error no matter how I try to access the MAD board. Weird.

Interestingly enough, I can't access MADB from my university. What's up with that?

Back on topic... WTF?! I mean, really? The idea of castration for any reason I think is absurd, but as a cure for homosexuality? Someone would actually have such backwards thinking that this would be justified ever? Really?!

cumom
Election Made Sure

Joined: 22 Aug 2006
Posts: 6852

Posted: Wed Jun 10, 2009 8:32 pm Post subject:

DoubleX wrote:

Who in history ultimately decided that homosexuality was 'wrong?'

God. lol

Various cultures have dealt with homosexuality in different ways. Here's a brief anthropology lesson:

I. Homosexuality as a social role. All cultures have specific social roles played by individuals who have sex with people of the same sex. This gives a social function to the homosexual, and it lends meaning to homosexuality.
Caveat: The homosexual social role may or may not correspond to the orientation of the person put in the social role. E.g., in ancient china, the emperor used homosexual men as servants for his wives and concubines; but the men who were tapped to play that role may or may not have actually been homosexual, but rather were called upon to play a particular role. The emperor ensured their fidelity by having them castrated.

II. Homosexuality as meaning: All cultures have integrated homosexuality in such a way that it reinforces or reproduces the culture; that is, it is integrated into the meaning fabric of the culture.
Caveat: Do not misunderstand this to mean that homosexuals have had positive roles/meanings. In some cultures, yes; in other cultures, homosexuals were the scapegoats, the epitome of disease or impurity. Their social role was to receive the anger and disgust of society and/or to differentiate one society from another. E.g., it is generally believed that the ancient Hebrews become "homophobic" because the ancient babylonians had very visible and socially prominent roles for homosexuals and homosexual acts, such as male temple prostitutes and Enkidu who loves Gilgamesh "like a woman".

III. It's always important not to confuse homosexual behavior with homosexual orientation. There is a lot of overlap between the two, but they are not the same thing.

IV. Patterns of homosexuality: Anthropologists looking at the world across time and across cultures have noticed that there are four basic patterns that societies tend to follow in organizing homosexuality. Most societies actually have cases of all of these patterns, but usually one will be dominant in the culture. Also note that in cultures where the homosexual role is to serve as the impure or pariah, that these patterns will be underground or repressed (e.g., the U.S. before about 1965).

a. gender differentiated: This is where one of the partners will adopt the gender role of the opposite sex, so that in outward experience, the couple appear to be "normal". Usually, however, cultures know that they are of the same sex and the often have a different word for the genders they become (e.g., a feminized man or a masculinized woman). This is the most common around the world, I believe, across time. It's very common in hunter-gatherer and tribal societies, but also in large societies such as India and China. There were examples of this in early American history among Europeans; but it was an open way of life among many native americans. In today's world, this is still very common in Latin American countries (outside of urban areas) where a "masculine" partner maintains social status regardless of what he does; and the "feminine" partner (receiver in anal sex) is seen as a degraded man, or womanlike.

b. age differentiated: Here homosexuality is patterned after a mentor/mentee relationship. The older partner is nearly always heterosexually married, and "courts" the younger partner. It's nearly always in societies with very rigid and hierarchal class structures, and usually extremely sexist/anti-woman. The Greeks are the classic (no pun intended) example; there are some misconceptions that this was pedophilic or ephebaphilic, but the most recent research suggests that the younger partner was a young man, not a boy, and the Greek laws were pretty explicitly against pedophilia. In today's world, this is most common in Arabic cultures, where younger men play the sexual role where women are unavailable. This is a good example of why it's important to differentiate between homosexual behavior and orientation: It's pretty common for young men to have sex with older men for favors/gifts/money. They may or many not be gay. Notice that this social structure provides a way for men who are actually gay to have sex and relationships and still be socially acceptable, and it provides otherwise straight men with a sexual release where none other is available.

c. ritual homosexuality: this is the rarest form, but still found around the world. This is where homosexual acts play a role in religious. You find this in India, the South Pacific, some African tribes, etc. I don't know why, but I find this fascinating, where sex between people of the same sex (nearly always men, at least that we know of; there's some clues that there were greek mystery cults that involved lesbian sex, but the records are very sparse) actually embues the participants with divine power. Hot. This was something the Hebrews objected to directly in Babylonian culture and wrote about it in the Bible.

d. egalitarian homosexuality: this is egalitarian on two levels. First, where the two partners are of equal social status to each other (that is, they see each other as equals). They may or may not be gendered differently or have wide age differences; the key here is that they occupy similar social statuses regardless. And secondly, where the homosexual individual has an equal social status with others of his or her sex in the society, so they are equal to them, or the same as them. Although there were individual cases of this kind of relationship in history, it wasn't a recognizes possibility for social organization until the past 100 years, starting in the west, and now spread around the world. In American history, interestingly, the egalitarian spirit collided with victorian sexual mores in the 19th century to produce what probably were egalitarian homosexual couples, but which were underground and not socially recognized.

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