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free
Greenie
Joined: 29 May 2008
Posts: 17
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 Posted: Sat Jul 18, 2009 11:03 am Post subject: Ironic - Socialism and Capitalism |
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The early christians, as well as early mormons, were very socialist.
Isn't it strange how American christians and mormons, are the exact opposite, leaning very far right, almost libertarian at times.
I'm just saying. |
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Reuben
Election Made Sure
Joined: 02 May 2009
Posts: 683
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| Posted: Sat Jul 18, 2009 11:07 am Post subject: Re: Ironic - Socialism and Capitalism |
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| free wrote: | The early christians, as well as early mormons, were very socialist.
Isn't it strange how American christians and mormons, are the exact opposite, leaning very far right, almost libertarian at times.
I'm just saying. |
"Two legs bad, four legs good."
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"Please! This is supposed to be a happy occasion. Let's not bicker and argue over who killed who."
Gordon B. Hinkley at the dedication of the Mountain Meadow Massacre Memorial, quoting the King of Swamp Castle from Monty Python and the Holy Grail. |
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cumom
Election Made Sure
Joined: 22 Aug 2006
Posts: 6852
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| Posted: Sat Jul 18, 2009 12:24 pm Post subject: Re: Ironic - Socialism and Capitalism |
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| Reuben wrote: | | free wrote: | The early christians, as well as early mormons, were very socialist.
Isn't it strange how American christians and mormons, are the exact opposite, leaning very far right, almost libertarian at times.
I'm just saying. |
"Two legs bad, four legs good." |
Three legs just right! |
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Reuben
Election Made Sure
Joined: 02 May 2009
Posts: 683
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| Posted: Sat Jul 18, 2009 4:50 pm Post subject: Re: Ironic - Socialism and Capitalism |
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| cumom wrote: | | Reuben wrote: | | free wrote: | The early christians, as well as early mormons, were very socialist.
Isn't it strange how American christians and mormons, are the exact opposite, leaning very far right, almost libertarian at times.
I'm just saying. |
"Two legs bad, four legs good." |
Three legs just right! |
i don't remember the three leg part of "Animal Farm," but I do remember the SNL skit for three legged levis, very funny.
_________________
"Please! This is supposed to be a happy occasion. Let's not bicker and argue over who killed who."
Gordon B. Hinkley at the dedication of the Mountain Meadow Massacre Memorial, quoting the King of Swamp Castle from Monty Python and the Holy Grail. |
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ff42
Election Made Sure
Joined: 10 Sep 2008
Posts: 529
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| Posted: Sat Jul 18, 2009 5:46 pm Post subject: Re: Ironic - Socialism and Capitalism |
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| free wrote: | The early christians, as well as early mormons, were very socialist.
Isn't it strange how American christians and mormons, are the exact opposite, leaning very far right, almost libertarian at times.
I'm just saying. |
Care to give an example how mormons EVER act libertarian?
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”Most of the harm in the world is done by good people, and not by accident, lapse, or omission. It is the result of their deliberate actions, long persevered in, which they hold to be motivated by high ideals toward virtuous ends.” - Isabel Paterson |
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free
Greenie
Joined: 29 May 2008
Posts: 17
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| Posted: Sat Jul 18, 2009 8:10 pm Post subject: Re: Ironic - Socialism and Capitalism |
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Care to give an example how mormons EVER act libertarian?[/quote]
I was referring to members not the leadership. I know, or knew, very few mormons who were democrats. Most are republican and a few libertarian. It is a small sample set, though.
In the Bush/Kerry election, I knew a lot of Mormons who voted libertarian.
But anyway, that wasn't the point so much (I guess I shouldn't have mentioned libertarian). The point was that it seems like christianity and mormonism both started out socialist, but now are very opposed to those principles. The early mormons with the United Order and the Law of Consecration.
I vaguely remember a new testament story of an early christian that didn't share all his possessions with the group, that then dropped dead by the power of God. |
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oaxaca
Lip-Smackin' Good
Joined: 27 Aug 2006
Posts: 331
Location: Charm City
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| Posted: Sat Jul 18, 2009 8:56 pm Post subject: Re: Ironic - Socialism and Capitalism |
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| free wrote: | The early christians, as well as early mormons, were very socialist.
Isn't it strange how American christians and mormons, are the exact opposite, leaning very far right, almost libertarian at times.
I'm just saying. |
There's actually a book out there whose name I can't remember written about the shift of Mormons from utopian socialism to enthusiastic capitalism. Written by socialists who were unhappy about the shift if I'm not mistaken.
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Stop not to think, ever. Society rightly abhors this solitary vice, and misery and perversity are its only rewards. Thinking leads to thought and thought leads to differentiation, and the different are properly shunned in all species. --Michael Kelly |
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notpotable
Fear will keep the local systems in line.
Joined: 22 Dec 2007
Posts: 4101
Location: North America's wang
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| Posted: Sat Jul 18, 2009 9:33 pm Post subject: Re: Ironic - Socialism and Capitalism |
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| oaxaca wrote: | | There's actually a book out there whose name I can't remember written about the shift of Mormons from utopian socialism to enthusiastic capitalism. Written by socialists who were unhappy about the shift if I'm not mistaken. |
I remember my dad telling me very seriously about how one day we'd all get called to Missouri and live the Law of Consecration. He would also tell me about the "evils" of socialism. Then I got to high school and learned about communism/socialism/what-have-you (I admit I'm not as clear on the differences as I ought to be), and couldn't figure out what was so bad about it, as it sounded pretty much exactly like the communal living off of the lard's pooled resources under the direction of the penishood that my dad had talked so glowingly about. Yet another WTF moment among many.
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"Go not to the Lesser Apostate board to gain the relief from sin that you seek. For they are lukewarm, neither hot nor cold and in the end will simply be spewed out of the mouth of the Savior like the day-old coffee that they are."
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Iron Lung
Fitter Happier
Joined: 14 Sep 2006
Posts: 351
Location: Utah County Ugh!
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| Posted: Sun Jul 19, 2009 12:29 am Post subject: |
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175 years preaching the Mormon Jesus and all these folks around here can think about is crawling in their holes, with their guns and their food storage and shooting at anything that threatens their existence.
If Mormon's faith in the eternal nature of human kind were so firm, i.e. that this life is but a blip against the eternities, would there be such a need for fear, hoarding and ushering in the apocalypse?
I believe the Christians and Mormons have swung right because they've lost faith in their own beliefs. Nothing about their existence sustains their campaign except fear and hoarding and the apocalypse. Give them peace on earth and you invalidate their cause. |
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wry catcher
Holier than thou...yes, this means thou
Joined: 22 Aug 2006
Posts: 5179
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| Posted: Sun Jul 19, 2009 12:34 am Post subject: |
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| Iron Lung wrote: | 175 years preaching the Mormon Jesus and all these folks around here can think about is crawling in their holes, with their guns and their food storage and shooting at anything that threatens their existence.
If Mormon's faith in the eternal nature of human kind were so firm, i.e. that this life is but a blip against the eternities, would there be such a need for fear, hoarding and ushering in the apocalypse?
I believe the Christians and Mormons have swung right because they've lost faith in their own beliefs. Nothing about their existence sustains their campaign except fear and hoarding and the apocalypse. Give them peace on earth and you invalidate their cause. |
QFMFT. |
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jahedgpeth
White Noise
Joined: 28 May 2008
Posts: 1820
Location: Texas
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| Posted: Sun Jul 19, 2009 2:53 am Post subject: Re: Ironic - Socialism and Capitalism |
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| cumom wrote: |
Three legs just right! |
ahahahaha... 
You like that third leg...eh?
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jahedgpeth
White Noise
Joined: 28 May 2008
Posts: 1820
Location: Texas
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| Posted: Sun Jul 19, 2009 3:03 am Post subject: Re: Ironic - Socialism and Capitalism |
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| free wrote: |
I was referring to members not the leadership. I know, or knew, very few mormons who were democrats. Most are republican and a few libertarian. It is a small sample set, though.
In the Bush/Kerry election, I knew a lot of Mormons who voted libertarian.
But anyway, that wasn't the point so much (I guess I shouldn't have mentioned libertarian). The point was that it seems like christianity and mormonism both started out socialist, but now are very opposed to those principles. The early mormons with the United Order and the Law of Consecration.
I vaguely remember a new testament story of an early christian that didn't share all his possessions with the group, that then dropped dead by the power of God. |
The difference between religious facilitated “socialism” and state run socialism is that the religious socialism is a choice. People can choose to be part of it and they can choose who they want to share in the benefits of it to some degree.
I wouldn’t take part in either if it were at all up to me. I have an insatiable love for my own money and I do hate to see it go. Plus, my back hurts far too often and far too much from working for me to want to get on board with a program that puts food in someone’s mouth who isn’t concurrently sharing my misery with their own aches from their own vocation.
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Subversive Asset 2.0
Election Made Sure
Joined: 31 May 2009
Posts: 229
Location: Lawton, OK or College Station, TX
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| Posted: Sun Jul 19, 2009 6:03 am Post subject: |
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but if the church had the law of consecration, how quickly would they support ballots in California extending it to nonbelievers? 
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I blog a lot more than I post, so you might want to check out Irresistible (Dis)Grace sometime. |
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